|
Re: The Animelyrics.com Controversy
Link |
by
on 2006-11-11 19:53:32 |
any website with hundreds of thousands of users, like gendou.com or animelyrics.com, has the opportunity to make lots of money from advertisements. i do not to have ads on the site by moral choice. 
|
|
Re: The Animelyrics.com Controversy
|
|
I say to go with the .tv choice. They have lines between each verse which makes it easier to read, and they have a search thing, although it isn't as good as the one there used to be. Thats how I feel, and I'm not going to .com unless they put the lines between each verse and they make a more appealing layout
If You Add Salt And Butter, It Tastes Like Salty Butter
|
|
Re: The Animelyrics.com Controversy
Link |
by SamuraiXmas
on 2006-11-12 02:06:44
|
|
With Databases, especially databases of data that you have absolutely no rights to (Lyrics of Japanese songs? Come on), there should be very little in terms of..how to say it... a "Sense of entitlement" to the materials as they are. Having said that, it sounds to me like Igor owned the domain name, wasn't paying Phillip or anyone else for their coding services, and thus owns the materials as they were published to his website (He owned it, payed for it, etc). At the same time though, in this day and age of wiki's and "Fair use", anyone could take all the data from the site and use it as their own. I mean, you can't own the lyrics to Japanese songs, unless you are a Japanese recording studio. If Igor wanted, he has a very thin case against Phillip for copyright infringement in using the exact same code etc. It's about time people on the internet realize that you have to legalize things, with a lawyer whenever you want to enter into business with someone else. In conclusion; Legally, we should use .com, but in all honestly, Phillip sounds like he deserves it more. Igor could have put adds in there just as easily. Can't shoot him for trying to make a buck. |
|
Re: The Animelyrics.com Controversy
Link |
by
on 2006-11-12 02:14:09 (edited 2006-11-12 02:14:31)
|
|
you are wrong on nearly all the facts! the code belongs to phillip, not igor, as did the server. igor couldn't put up ads, as he did not have access to the host machine. obviously, nobody is getting shot. there is, however, a moral choice to be made, which is influenced by greed.
|
|
Re: The Animelyrics.com Controversy
|
| I am remaining neutral until I can get clear order on which actually maintains site better. I don't care what actually happens with layout, I care more about the content. |
|
Re: The Animelyrics.com Controversy
|
|
This is something that has always been on my mind but I never really posted but here goes. The reason behind all the actions undertaken by Kaitou Ace was due to him being locked out of the site. =/(This can be deduced by looking at the timeline. If there are any other external factors, then please pardon me.) I think Philip locking him out was one of the main factors. So urm yeah. >.> That's what I think at least. Either way, lokcing someone out of an agreed partnership is enough to make one go mad. =/  |
|
Re: The Animelyrics.com Controversy
|
|
I apologize for taking so long to reply, I've been busy with work (school) outside of these sites... First of all, to the person who said that the sites haven't updated in over 2 years, that is false. The updates page hasn't changed, but new content is added all the time (at least on .tv). As for compensation, both Kaitou and Pmak have given me offers and in fact Pmak has already sent me a single payment, and it is one I have no qualms about taking, given the history here. For now, I am continuing to work with both sites. Additional admins have been hired to work on the .tv backend, and so it will continue to run with or without me (though I honestly don't intend to leave .tv because of the awesome forum community there). I have been given moderator status at .com and am helping them design the database to do things that honestly make the job easier from an admin perspective, but I'm not badmouthing pmak for his coding since these issues are the kind that only come up after months of working with the system. Where will these sites go in the future? Animelyrics.tv looks like it's going to be staying the same, for all intents and purposes. Animelyrics.com is going to be part of the AnimeGlobe network that includes animewallpapers, animepedia, animeforums, etc etc... so it's ultimately up to the visitors, honestly, which site they'd prefer. As a casual anime fan (I'm more in it for the music than the cartoons), the smaller site at animelyrics.tv holds much more appeal to me, to be honest. Plus I think the Japanese board on the forums has a much better community and rule structure. But if you're a hardcore otaku and you want to be totally surrounded by anime this and anime that and meet other hardcore otaku, the animelyrics.com network might be more appropriate for you. Who should you link to, Gendou? Whichever you prefer. |
|
Re: The Animelyrics.com Controversy
|
|
I personally don't have a preference for either sites, being a translator here. I've submitted lyrics to the original AnimeLyrics.com site, but it was a pain to realize that there's an error and be unable to correct it. It was an even bigger pain to see horrible lyrics (translations or badly transcribed romaji) on the site. That said, I think it's better to let people easily and quickly put the lyrics via the ro/ka/en buttons on Gendou.com, because if there are mistakes, then the original submitters can easily go back and edit them. What would be even better, though, would be opening the lyrics editing to everyone, wiki-style, so people who understand Japanese better can come back and revise the sub-par romaji, kanji, and english lyrics. I've seen some lyrics here that need work and proper crediting. |
|
Re: The Animelyrics.com Controversy
Link |
by kenshinflyer
on 2006-11-12 20:31:22 (edited 2006-11-12 20:38:06)
|
|
This is ridiculous. I've been running to animelyrics for lyrics, and you dissolved this partnership even without releasing lyrics for the new anime? I even try giving lyrics but there are quirks...and the original owners managed to make money out of it? My point: if only we put money second and service first... Come to think of it, Gendou, why not host your own lyrics service, so that there will be no problems? We'll be glad to provide.
BLEHH!
|
|
Re: The Animelyrics.com Controversy
Link |
by
on 2006-11-12 22:08:38 |
|
@ Gendou: I was going to say, I'm very impressed that you run a site that uses this much bandwidth without any advertising. Especially since music uls/dls use way more bandwidth than just displaying text. You're also very low-key about donations, which is also very refreshing. I wasn't just barely paying the bills as-is, I'd donate a few bucks just for that. As for some others' points about the advertising, it is a tricky matter. Any site, even one operated by volunteers, needs a certain amount of money to maintain the site, and-- annoying as it may be-- leasing webpage space for advertisers is one way of raising revenue. Secondly, one would need hard numbers on how much the site made in ad revenue versus how much maintaining the site actually cost in order to tell how much of that money was actually "profit" as such. Not so much a "moral" point as a personal one: If I ran a site that made some sort of monetary profit, from any manner of source, even if the others maintaining the site were volunteers, I would still offer them some of it as a "thank you" if nothing else, a show of gratitude for all the trouble they go through keeping things running from day to day. The most important thing both sites's people should keep in mind is the original purpose they began the whole venture-- sharing translations of song lyrics-- to remember that it was the fans who made the site what it was, and that the future of either site lies with the support of the anime/j-pop community.  |
|
Re: The Animelyrics.com Controversy
Link |
by mewarmo990
on 2006-11-13 00:53:13
|
|
http://www.animelyrics.tv/forum/topic_show.pl?tid=24798 It's the AnimeLyrics community's take on the situation, so it's worth a look. I, however, will continue to support the community however I can, regardless of domain name. In the end, it will all come down to which site the users prefer, so it'll be unfortunate if this issue causes a major split in the community. Although - judging by recent responses - things will pretty much remain the same on AnimeLyrics.tv, the switch will definitely confuse some users and maybe permanently throw off the ones who weren't really involved or just missed the redirect page. Like Xazy said earlier, AL.tv as a small, tight-knit anime community has much more appeal to me, as opposed to the new AL.com which has become part of a large anime webring composed of rabid otaku and content leechers. Though I myself rarely directly contribute content, it is really a nice thing to be accepted as a member of the community by intelligent and open-minded people like those on this forum. Plus the format of AL.tv's forum protects my eyes from cornea-melting avatars and signatures! Give it a year. We'll see. Now to go copy&paste this at AnimeLyrics.tv. Btw, I go by the same name on AL.tv, minus the r before the 9.
Maka here is an wonderful example of why it's a bad idea to home school your children.
Maybe also a good example of why inbreeding is a bad idea, although the paternity test has not been done to say for sure.
-Gendou
|
|
Re: The Animelyrics.com Controversy
|
|
I think the real problem here is expecting to turn a profit from a free service. This is why I try to search for as many free internet supplies as possible because it's not worth it unless there's something to sell. Yes, there's advertising, but if you expect to make money off of that, you're going to have some very unhappy visitors.
Nyo! =^__^=
|
|
Re: The Animelyrics.com Controversy
Link |
by
on 2006-11-13 11:48:39 |
|
I have no stake in this whole affair (I don't spend much time looking up lyrics, and when I do I simply do a websearch for them), so here's my neutral opinion: Belldandy stated that igor didn't help maintain the site because he was locked out of it, but Sailorbacon stated that igor never helped (implying that he didn't help even when the site was on his server). IMO, philip should have removed only about half of igor's ads, or worked out an arrangement with him. This is under the premise that the income from the ads originally paid for the domain name and the server. Once igor was no longer providing the server, he didn't require the income to pay for it. However, he still had the domain name to pay for. Neither site seems to have any true claim to the database content. Sailorbacon, and (arguably) Xazy are the only ones who could be said to have any claim to the database content (although there's still room for debate, since much of the content was submitted by individual visitors). Thus, as far as the data is concerned, neither site is truly right nor wrong. The most appropriate solution would be to assign the rights to the current database to sailorbacon and/or xazy, and have them let both sites (and even other sites) -use- it (but not own it). The truth of who's "right" or "wrong" in this is far too murky for most of us to ever know the truth (indeed, it's likely that the fault is shared among both parties), so the best thing is to simply not take sides. Link to both sites & a summary of the situation, and let individual users make their own decisions. |
|
Re: The Animelyrics.com Controversy
|
|
Hello everyone. I just found out about this whole AnimeLyrics controversy and I'm truly stunned by all the things that have been going on. o.o As I don't know much about the details of the problem, I can't really give a deep opinion. But it seems to me that the original creator of the website (SailorBacon) is the one who should decide what would become of his original database. As someone pointed out before, both AnimeLyrics sites exist because, at some point in the past, SailorBacon decided to create a lyrics database and Xazy kept running it for him when he had to leave it. The other two guys are involved, of course, 'cause they were part of a partnership, but if they are having problems... The original content was SailorBacon's. :P I guess it is quite useless to try and decide which website should remain. So far, many simple users (like myself), who had no idea of this whole problem, have kept going to AnimeLyrics.com as that's the URL one remembers easily. Until today, I had no idea that the site had changed and that the people behind it had splitted up and all... And I'm sure there are many people like me who just don't have a clue about what's happening and they just keep going to the site they remember. And it's a pity 'cause that could mean that AnimeLyrics.tv could start losing it's audience (even if the contents and the design and all it's more like the old AnimeLyrics.com) just because many people have no idea of this website with a .tv URL. :P In my opinion, both websites should shut down and if Phillip and Igor want to run a website with anime lyrics, they should start from scratch and return the content to its original creators. Or they can run another website, put or take ads or do whatever they want with it. But I guess it's quite unfair for the original creators to see that their content is being copied and split between two websites that are very similar. -_- Of course the site was popular and a lot of people visited it. But if the people who were behind it can't get along anymore, they should start their own projects and leave this one as it is. Igor had the domain and he could create a new site, with his own lyrics and contents. And Phillip could do the same with his new domain. Or maybe they both could simply go and run other type of anime websites instead of one about lyrics. But, the main thing is: if they wanna keep running anime lyrics related websites, they should start from scratch and leave the original SailorBacon contents to SailorBacon. :P I don't know... As I've said, I've only started to learn about this problem. But it seems clear to me that no one should be making money or any other kind of profit from a database created by a third person that's not even involved in the websites anymore. Everyone has a right to have issues and to have arguments with people and all. But it seems only fair to me that they both should give up on trying to run an anime lyrics related website based on content provided by someone who is not taking part of neither of the websites anymore. :P Anyway, as for where should the links here in Gendou.com point to... I wouldn't go for any of them. I guess the idea of just linking to an internal database is the most fair and logical option. :) And I'm sure many of us will be happy to contribute to this site's database. :) That's my humble opinion and also my first post ever in this forum. :) Regards! |
|
Re: The Animelyrics.com Controversy
|
|
PARTNERSHIPS: hmm i dun know much about this but. It seems that if things were meant to be non-profit in the first place then, they should have signed up for servers and website from a third party. The fact that the third party company has all the content, servers, and website...will indirectly act as a check and balance against members of the partnership who will attempt to profitize from it by "stealing". I dun know much about it but...it's pretty clear that the moment this partnership was created and the way things were set up. IT WAS BOUND TO HAPPEN. SOMEONE WAS BOUND TO PROFITIZE FROM THIS SETUP. Sorry about what happen but...well life goes on. TURN THIS SITE INTO A WIKIPEDIA FOR ANIME LRYICS TOO... If this site is to rely on other sites for anime lyrics, why bother? Members will submit content to the lyrics on this site. The whole purpose of this site is to be non-profitable. WE WANT THIS SITE TO BE A WIKIPEDIA FOR ANIME MUSIC AND SONGS. This site mustn't have relations with untrustworthy sites where the reason for its existence is solely for profit. (AKA...Wanna get sued?!?) Ya like some ppl said...make this site to have lyrics. Make some people admins to edit or modify the songs. Screw Animelyrics.com or animelyrics.tv if I were the host of this site. |
|
Re: The Animelyrics.com Controversy
Link |
by kenshinflyer
on 2006-11-14 20:10:35 (edited 2006-11-14 20:11:58)
|
|
I've seen both Animelyrics sites. And, for familiarity's sake, I think Animelyrics.tv is closest to the Animelyrics that I've first accessed three or so years ago, so I'll patronize it more often. The question now is keeping up to date. And I hope no involved person will end up visiting the Hotline to Hell at any given midnight and post a grudge.
BLEHH!
|
|
Re: The Animelyrics.com Controversy
|
|
Well I have no problem with which ever you chose to use Was long was the both sites know that Lyrics are copyright to their respective translators or submitters and not of the site owner every thing is fine for me It's even fine if you consider another possibility for the Lyrics like the one that was aloud the users to submite Lyrics directly to Gendou.com |
|
Re: The Animelyrics.com Controversy
Link |
by
on 2006-11-14 20:24:32 (edited 2006-11-14 20:27:14)
|
|
Wow. I have read all the replies from Gendou.com., Animelyrics.tv, and Animelyrics.com. You can tell that they are biased, but that is to be expected. As a member of Animelyrics.tv , I want to commend you, Gendou, for taking somewhat a neutral look at this. I have read all of the replies and I'm really impressed on how you took your stab at this issue. Xazy, SailorBeacon, Gendou, and anyone else I forgot, thanks for not letting this get out of control, and turning it into an all out war. I believe that this conflict will get resolved, but it will take time, not to mention a helluva lot of negotiations. I'm going to throw my 2 cent's into this matter. I'm taking this from a non-bias point to the best of my ability. I have registered with animelyrics.com(under a different name other than these sites) for the matter because I didn't know that we had moved. Compared to .tv, it's a madhouse. Gendou, it would make you mad even! I entered the chat room(seriously, just go in there just for a second) just for the hell of it, and it's gotta be the most crazy room ever, it was mostly Naruto addicts. Disgusted with the chat, I went into the forums, mass chaos. That's all that was present. Trying to keep a clear mind, I went and ventured into the lyrics part of the site, as many people saw, I too found fragmented lyrics. I'm not going to lie, animelyrics.com will need work, but it will only get better if and when this is resolved. What I read on the .com side is that they are going to language stuff up, that's tough stuff to do while getting crap lyrics. Animelyrics.tv I registered with .tv around July of 05. I found the forum a little harsh at first, compared with a massive forum, but found that a lot of the lyrics were nicely translated, which helped me out a lot. Although it is a small community, with new user's registering everyday, we are a close knit community, which is wanted by others,and also hated. Btw, I cannot even start to believe the chaos of new registered users on the new .com, not to mention the flawed submission the new site gets. I believe that both of the site's have huge responsibilities, not to mention, lives outside the site. With this information present, I can only think that something went wrong when this all started, similar to a double edged sword. Something went wrong when the sites were started up and it just started to build and build, and then we go to this time, and the top has blown. I cannot be sure what exactly went wrong, whether it was a partnership, advertising, or site control. When I read that Igor was booted out, the thing that came to my mind was that they were fighting over for power of the site, it may of involved money, but this is turning into a power struggle now. Who gets this and who gets this. I think that we need an outside party not affiliated with either sites, and is neutral to help solve this conflict, however, this could also cause problems, but in the long run it would most likely help solve some of the conflict. A mediator is needed, otherwise this is just going to be a huge tug of war game. That's my 2 cents, but you don't have to read unless you want to.
You know, I really don't have a signature.
|
|
Re: The Animelyrics.com Controversy
|
|
Is this a question purely of moral fiber and ethical responsibilty? I've been using animelyrics.com for a good minute now, and when the site format altered, I just figured it was a cosmetic shtick. All issues of integrity aside, are there any differences between the two sites functionality? ease of use? content? maybe the new colors just hurt your eyes?!? I mean, is there even a really huge desparity between the 'fuzzy romaji' search and the 'advanced romaji' search? If there is, well, maybe that's something to consider. I pose this query for the truly ambivlient. However, I think that it's pretty clear that if you'd want to make a choice based on who's in the right, it's .tv I'll end with a quote from one of the greatest american poets of our time... Mike Tyson. "She called me a rapist and a recluse. I'm not a recluse." Hiyo!
...bang
|
|
Re: The Animelyrics.com Controversy
Link |
by
on 2006-11-15 12:15:58 |
|
If this has been covered, my bad for not noticing it earlier. I don't like AnimeForum. The end. :0 Actually, since both sites hold the same lyrics, wouldn't it be a good idea to contact the 'authors' and ask them which site they prefer their lyrics to be on? Did someone mention this already in this thread? If so, sorry, tl;dr. :/    |