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Question about editing kanji/romanji
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I've looked at a lot of lyrics pages and just about every single one does not comply with the stated rules for the romanization and kanji. Things like english words on the kanji page, english words in the romanji not using the japanese pronunciation, non-capitalized, adding extra sounds or words that are in the song but not in the official lyrics, and others. It is my understanding that the kanji page should be the verbatim copy of the official lyrics (no matter what it is, as long as it's japanese, (even if it contains some english words)), and the romanji page should be the exact same page as the kanji page but the hiragana/kanji in roman letters lowercase and the katakana in caps using japanese pronunciation. Can I/Should I edit pages to remove invalid unofficial lyrics to correct them? I also say gendou should expand and elaborate the rules some more and explain odd cases a little more often in the rules. I have scoured over them and there are a lot of unknowns in some situations. Edit: I may have posted this in the wrong place and it maybe should be moved to the Help Forum. |
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Re: Question about editing kanji/romanji
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on 2007-12-07 11:57:19 (edited 2007-12-07 12:23:36)
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Because of the user-contribution system used, the lyrics pages need to be carefully monitored for errors, and those numerous errors must be painstakingly corrected. This is not a task I have set out to perform. I leave it up to concerned intelligent people like you, Ergzay, to maintain quality. Yes, please correct any errors. No, this is a fine place to post your thread. I am very open to suggestions on how to improve the lyrics system. Please tell me which rules are confusing and help me come up with better explanations! EDIT: I have opened the Lyrics History page to the public, so that more people can help maintain quality. 
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Re: Question about editing kanji/romanji
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First of all, I assume all the things I stated that I thought were wrong are actually wrong? I use http://gendou.com/legal.php?query=Lyrics+System as people have suggested but I have a few questions about it. 1. What defines a "sentence" or a "sentence fragment"? Does it have to be on its own line? 2. When the official lyrics combine japanese spacing with standard spacing do we use the spacing they use or do we use full-width versions of the characters. Like for example they use japanese but they insert a ? or a ! and that character does not take a full space, it only takes the normal space it would use if we typed it. 3. The lyrics page only has a place for a weblink to a source. I prefer to get my source from the original (usually scans of the CD inserts, that often come with the flac/ape files I download). Could a space be added for other information? Can we place other info into the link area and it will use the link but also have the notes there? 4. You say that tabs and double spaces will be converted to spaces, but I have found several that are not. They case is that when there is a japanese space followed by a western space it does not convert the two. For the kanji page it should be converting any of either into japanese spaces and for the romaji and english page it should be converting any of either into western spaces. It would be even better if you could use the system to do a scan through and automatically correct any english/romaji pages that have japanese spaces and any kanji pages that have western spaces into their proper versions. 5. Something confusing: It says: "If the Kanji lyrics are available, use the same pattern of line breaks for the Romaji and English lyrics. Otherwise, each measure should be on one line, with two line breaks separating sections." and then it says "More than one blank line in a row will be converted to only one blank line." Which is it? 6. It says no punctuation should be used on the romaji page, but what about when the kanji lyrics include characters like ☆ or … or any of several others. What should these be converted to? In some cases ☆ can be converted into "hoshi" but in other cases it is just put in for some reason. 7. It says that 㣠used at the end of a word should have ~ added, but it doesn't mention what is to be done when it is in the middle. I know this is obvious to anyone who has taken japanese (even me who has only had a few semesters of it knows), but to people who haven't it should be as clear as possible. 8. The page says nothing on what to do when ー is used in katakana. I have so far been leaving it with a western style - in the word, but this doesn't feel right. I think I had a few others but they have left me, I'll add them in other posts in this topic if I come upon something. Edit: One more thing, (this isn't too long after I posted so I'll go ahead and add it). Some kind of method for easily voting for a lyrics page to be locked should be added. As in once a page has had the official kanji put in (and they give some way of verifying that it is so) it should be locked so people can not further change the kanji (and the same for all the other pages). And if the (hopefully) rare case comes up that it is not someone can request an edit or correction in the forum that is for things like that. This would hopefully reduce amounts of work people have to do and wouldn't have to keep checking old files. I am not quite sure how this would be done but possibly make a small "committee" of elected (or selected) users to go over pages that have been voted to be locked for completion in which they double check that it is so. Edit 2: #9. When english words are used in the Japanese official lyrics (I mean actual english words and not the katakana) should the romaji still use the japanese pronunciations or should it be left as english words? Also if they were not capitalized in the kanji page should they be capitalized? |
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Re: Question about editing kanji/romanji
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on 2007-12-09 00:25:29 |
1. This is a sentence. Is a sentence fragment.  2. The CD jacket will undoubtedly contain monospace characters, which should stay monospace. 3. If the source is the physical CD jacket, you could post a link to scanned images of it. Or, if you like, put your user profile or email (prepended with "mailto:"), since you are the source of the transliteration. 4. You're right. Japanese spaces have not been included in my scripts as whitespace. This is a known bug that I plan to (eventually) fix. 5. A line break ends a line. Two line breaks followed by text create one blank line separating the two lines of text. THREE line breaks in a row create TWO blank lines, which are replaced by ONE blank line (two line consecutive breaks). I could have worded it more clearly; I mixed the computer term line break with the layman term blank line. Sorry. 6. If the Kanji say ☆ and the singer says 「星ã€then the Romaji should be "hoshi". All other special characters (those not spoken aloud) should be removed. 7. Anyone who doesn't know Japanese shouldn't be editing the Romaji lyrics in the first place! 8. See answer to number 7. 9. Single words are written phonetically, but, if the entire LINE is in English, it should be written in proper English. I agree that there needs to be better management of the lyrics system. Your suggestion will be part of my notes on the to-do list. Thanks for all your help!
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Re: Question about editing kanji/romanji
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5. I'm guessing this applies to the romanji/english pages only? I've seen kanji pages with two blank lines and they aren't being automatically changed. 8. #8 was a question for myself. My japanese classes of yet have been rather brief on what to do with katakana. Not to mention the fact we are using non-standard Revised Hepburn so the wikipedia page didn't help me and I couldn't find anything quickly using Google. So an answer would be great. So do I put エスカレーション as ESUKAREｰSHON or ESUKAREESHON. 9. Okay that confuses me, so if they say " -kanji- Happy -kanji-" we should rewrite it as "-romanji- HAPPI -romanji-"? That somehow doesn't make sense to me. Thanks for your continued help. |
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Re: Question about editing kanji/romanji
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on 2007-12-13 01:08:06 |
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5. Where? This should not be the case. 8. The later, obviously. I am unaware of any transliteration standard that would result in the former. 9. Good for you? I don't understand what you want me to do. Are you disputing the standardization method I have chosen? You'd better have a heaping helping of evidence to support your argument, if you do something bold like that! You're welcome.
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Re: Question about editing kanji/romanji
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5. Look at fure fure pponpon version 1 of kanji page. I can't link it but maybe you can look at it. 9. I seem to not be explaining myself correctly or I am not understanding you correctly. Oh, well, I've yet to see that so far so I'll bring it up again if it comes up. And thanks yet again for using more of your time on my pesky little questions. :-) |
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Re: Question about editing kanji/romanji
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on 2007-12-13 02:19:39 |
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5. indeed, that should not be. i will double-check the code.
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Re: Question about editing kanji/romanji
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hm... i hope it's ok to follow up my Qs in this thread since it's about the lyrics... may i ask why some of the lyrics editing are locked? o.o |
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Re: Question about editing kanji/romanji
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on 2007-12-14 10:53:49 (edited 2007-12-14 10:53:58)
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i lock lyrics to editing when they are complete and have been so for along time without any changes made. also, i will lock lyrics that are very disputed, after i have made the final edits.
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Re: Question about editing kanji/romanji
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The Motteke! Sailor Fuku romaji page doesn't comply at all and it is locked. Is it one that went without changes for a long time? And now that I mention it the kanji page as well. The official kanji lyrics are EXTREMELY odd and mix kanji/katakana/hiragana/random symbols/english lettering all together and go opposite of normal rules. That is to say the kanji page is not the official lyrics. Specifically: The entire romaji page does not comply with the katakana=capitalize rule. Line 4: ãョッ should be ãŽãƒ§ãƒƒ Line 8: ã‚ã„ã—ã¦ã‚‹ãƒ¼ should be ã‚ã„ã—テるー I only went 1/3 of the way down through the kanji page checking for errors. If it's unlocked I'll go all the way through when I get a chance. |