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Can you believe this crap?!
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Take a look at this article. Judge declares Pledge unconstitutional Wednesday, September 14, 2005; Posted: 2:21 p.m. EDT (18:21 GMT) SAN FRANCISCO, California (AP) -- Reciting the Pledge of Allegiance in public schools was ruled unconstitutional Wednesday by a federal judge who granted legal standing to two families represented by an atheist who lost his previous battle before the U.S. Supreme Court. U.S. District Judge Lawrence Karlton ruled that the pledge's reference to one nation "under God" violates school children's right to be "free from a coercive requirement to affirm God." Karlton said he was bound by precedent of the 9th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals, which in 2002 ruled in favor of Sacramento atheist Michael Newdow that the pledge is unconstitutional when recited in public schools. Copyright 2005 The Associated Press. All rights reserved.This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten, or redistributed. Can you believe this crap? What the hell is this jack@$$ thinking? Making the freakin' Pledge of Allegiance illegal?! This kind of ultra-liberal PC garbage REALLY pisses me off!  |
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Re: Can you believe this crap?!
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by night_link
on 2005-09-14 11:34:19 (edited 2005-09-14 11:34:43)
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| I'm stunned at this... You're right, I can't believe this. |
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Re: Can you believe this crap?!
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| I'm atheist... but I still think that Reciting the Pledge of Allegiance is something that should be done in every american school, it has nothing about God, it merely is a simbolic statement over their own Country...what's wrong with that?! |
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I never had to do the pledge in my school. Did they actually force you to say it? If you dont like the pledge then dont do it. Dont whine to the government that its unconstitutional.  Jomunga eats your avatars. |
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by desertranger
on 2005-09-14 15:08:34 (edited 2005-09-14 15:10:34)
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Since we are an internatioal group and so we understand start with the following: The U.S, Constitution is one of the most important, historical and valuable documents in the world. It embodies concepts designed to protect the civil rights of everyone citizen or not regardless of race creed, color or religious preference. The first 10 items are called the Bill of Rights and the basic tenants of American law. The 1st Amendment from the Bill of Rights states: Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances. This is the famous freedom of speech and separation of church and state law. The pledge allegiance was originally established in 1892 and read: I pledge allegiance to the Flag of the United States of America, and to the Republic for which it stands: one Nation indivisible, with Liberty and Justice for all. In 1954 during the hunt for communitsts in America it was changed to: I pledge allegiance to the Flag of the United States of America, and to the Republic for which it stands: one Nation, under god, indivisible,with Liberty and Justice for all. The reason for the addition if "under God" was to show the American public that we were united under the divine provedence of God since the worlds bad guys at the time were said to be "evil, godless, bloodless commie bastards". Basically it was added as a result of the start of the cold war. That was a political move, nothing more. It was supposed to bring the American people together during the witch hunts for the Red Menace. There is nothing in the constitution that says anything about the separatio of church and state. The law suit is bogus, the judges decision is bogus because there is nothing in the constitution forbiding or allowing it. This lawsuit was over a nasty divorce and custody battle gone bad and the husband, the plaintiff, was trying to get custody of his children so he created this to that end. Most peopkle in Calif, where this started, know the details and think this guy should be shot. It goes to show you that people will do anything even if it throws an entire country into disorder over a couple of words in order to achieve personal gains. Worse it shows that judges have little if any knowledge of the constitution.  |
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Jomunga--I was never forced to say the pledge. I don't know how you'd force someone to say it--and the teacher would have to be watching like a hawk to tell if someone wasn't saying it anyway... Desertranger--I agree with you that it's ridiculous. I think that while judge's ignorance of the constitution may be a problem--I also think that this is an example of an ultra-liberal judge taking his opportunity to "legislate from the bench." I could be wrong though, since I haven't heard anything new since I came across the original story. And I fail to see how this one phrase constitutes a threat to the so-called "separation of church and state." What's the menace? Oh, and I did know that bit about "under God" being added during the Cold War. I heard that it was added in order to annoy the Communists, who were actively anti-religious :P |
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by H e l l o Disease
on 2005-09-14 17:20:33
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Well... I can't say I didn't see this coming. All those relgious fanatics and atheists and what not are always complaining about something, so it was only a matter of time until this happened. When I was in elementary school up through most of middle school we were forced to recite the pledge. If we didn't say it we'd get in trouble. Our teachers would yell at us and whatnot. And they start forcing the recitation in kindergarden. So they're having all of these little kids mindlessly recite something until it's habbit, without ever really and truly knowing what it is their saying. They don't know otherwise. My social studies teacher in 7th and 8th grade got into a big discussion with us on this topic. He stated that the majority of people don't really know what they're saying. To be blunt we're pledgeing ourselves to our country. And our corrupt government. ((and yes... I'm one of those anti-bush freaks... my whole class was. we were depressed for 3 days after the elections last year... we stayed up all night watching the polls and whatnot. and then the next day turned into and all-out bitch-fest against Bush...)) Now why should we unknowingly pledge ourselves to a country with a corrupt government whos lost all sense of caring about their own citizens and is more concerned with making money, and obtaining oil than helping its own citizens With the amount of money wasted over in Irag, they could pay for healthcare for everyone in the US for the next 10 years. Now, I'm not saying the entire pledge is wrong. People should just become informed, and learn the whole story first. And then it's their choice whether or not they're going to recite the pledge or not. That's how it was for us. We have freedom of speech granted to us under the first ammendment, so all of these agnostic people can just shove it. If they don't want their kid to say it that's their business but they shouldnt cause problems for EVERYONE. And the whole "seperation of church and state" thing. That I don't get. It's not like you're actually being instructed in some sort of a relgion. It's not like it's some evil cult thing to say the pledge. It's just stating "one nation, under god" meaning that we are all one big happy nation, that we're all the same, that we're equal. So I fail to see how that could cause such a uproar.... No way to make a living; Masochism; Pain; Perfection; Muscle Spasms; Chiropractors; Short Carrers Eating Disorders! |
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I've been thinking about why this seems so wrong...and I think I've come up with it. This...event...has come about not because of popular opinion or widespread support, but because one dork managed to convince a judge who should have known better that his position was right. The way things are supposed to work in this country are that for a change like this to happen, a majority of voters will elect lawmakers who share their views. Those lawmakers will then enact laws to suit their electorate. But in cases like this, what's happening is that you have interaction between only a tiny amount of people. That's not how things are supposed to work in a democracy!! I don't think I did a very good job expressing that, but whatever. What are other peoples views? |
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by H e l l o Disease
on 2005-09-14 20:24:14
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Oldcrow- I totally agree. It should be based off a larger demographic of the United States... not just one person who started complaining. That's just not fair. It's kind of sad actually, how messed up the governments become due to the Bush administration... Bush goes and gets all of his buddies jobs, completely screwing up the last bit of decency left in the government and completely removing any faith I once had in the political system here... If things keep going like this EVERYONES gonna find something to complain about and before we know it they'll convince someone that video games are evil, and make those illegal. And so on and so forth. I say that all these polticians take some time out of their "busy" schedules and review the political system, and take a good long look at what's happened over the years and maybe... dare I say it... fix something... But god forbid they take some time away from their avoiding of the serious problems and making deals with special intrest groups to fix something... Oh... and would yah look at that... I said "god" in my post. sue me. No way to make a living; Masochism; Pain; Perfection; Muscle Spasms; Chiropractors; Short Carrers Eating Disorders! |
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by
on 2005-09-14 21:17:03 |
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If you have a problem saying god in your posts then do so as a noun or write it G-d. You do not pledge yourself to the government anymore than a soldier pledges himself to the president. Soldier swear an oath to protect the Constitution against all enemies forgein and domestic. That includes the current President of the United States whom both Ranger and I consider a war criminal, a common criminal as well as a traitor to the American peopl and to that document we have been talking about. Ranger has urged everyone he knows who is a resident in the US to write to their congressmen and senators to urge presidential impeachment proceedings for crimes against humanity, malfeasence in office, lying to the american Public, the invasion of a soveriegn nation and murder. Bush has done those things, all of them. It is a matter of public record.  |
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Totally true. The only good thing he's done is push for a mission to Mars. I consider myself a "conservative" but I have a serious case of Bush-hate going on. Our whole political system is corrupt and inefficient in the extreme (inefficiency proved by Katrina at the cost of WAY too many lives). We need a third party to straighten out the main two. Vote Nader in 2008! |
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by
on 2005-09-14 21:35:09 |
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Do not vote Nader, he's too old and a buffoon. He is also the reason why we have liability warning labels on everything from food to cars. Your better off voting for Hilary Clinton. |
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Hilary Clinton? No Way. For one thing, she's just as morally bankrupt as any Republican. On the day that news came in of something like a hundred kids dying in Iraq, she's on the soap box preaching about how violence in video games is ruining my generation. All the Democrats are good for is comlaining about the Republicans and all the Republicans are good for is screwing things up and lurching about in random directions. I consider myself an old-school Republican, in that I stand for fiscal responsibility, smaller government, less ultra-liberal garbage like the issue that I started this thread about, and a conservative stance towards social issues like gay marriage (I've made my opinion about that abundantly clear in the "gay marriage" thread) and abortion (pro-life except in situations like rape). I was mostly kidding about Nader, but we do need a change. As long as it's just the Republicans and the Democrats we're going to get the same old garbage over and over again until we DIE. I suppose one or the other of the parties might reform, but until then the only politicians worth anything are a few moderate Republicans, and an even smaller number of moderate Democrats. |
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Oh, and I totally didn't know that about the liability labels being Nader's fault. If you see on the news that he's been murdered it's because I took up a collection for an automatic weapon and hunted him down like a dirty dog. *in case any copz are reading this, I'm just kidding, fellas! :P |
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Re: Can you believe this crap?!
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| I believe that if you believe in any God, don't stress it. if you do not, just say or imagine something else while everybody else pledge the allegiance like we been doing for a long time. we don't tell them what to do, why should we let them? not that I got anything against atheists.. |
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is it really that big of a deal? im an atheist and i dont really care about having a pledge or not...
blar
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Re: Can you believe this crap?!
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by
on 2005-09-15 05:48:21 |
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Oldcrow the republicans have as much fiscal responsibility as a thief does. The US had trillions in surplus before Bush and his Minions took over and pused us trillions into debt. That onyltook 2 years. How do you go from trillions n surplus to trillions in debt in two years. We don't like either party for a few simple reasons. Even if you were an honest person before becoming a politician you become corrupt. Most politicians rely on someone else to do their think. Democrats tax and spend, Republicans borrow and spend. And I think that 5,000 politicians at the bottom of the ocean is a good start. |
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Hehe, you're absolutely right in everything you just said. Unfortunately, that's the problem. |
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Re: Can you believe this crap?!
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by
on 2005-09-15 09:34:24 |
the noun God as it appears in the Pledge of Allegiance is completely vague and open to interpretation. It does not support one religion in particular, which is what the Constitution told us is wrong to do. It does, however, suggest some religious power OVER of our nation. (one nation, UNDER god) The atheists who fought against the pledge are allergic to this humble pledge to a higher power. Thats fine. We don't FORCE people to drink milk if they are allergic. We still serve it in the cafeteria, though. Making the pledge mandatory is plainly unconstitutional. So is the president declaring war. I think its cool to say our old Pledge of Allegiance for purely historic reasons. If you don't want to say it, just move your mouth and pretend. 
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| The only reason we can talk like this is because we are given the freedom to (and b/c gendou created the forums =P.) One of the five founding factors in making a democracy is the freedom to do as you wish as long as it doesn't interfere with others freedom. Also we run our country on majority rule and minority rights so that means we can listen to what he says and not care even in the least. Atleast we listened, but he should still stand, put his hand on his heart, and respect the flag that represents the very ideal that he invoked. Isn't freedom a funny thing? |
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